Myth Happens - Looking north to the sea, she finds the weather fine

Sovay
Date: 2006-05-02 04:53
Subject: Looking north to the sea, she finds the weather fine
Security: Public
Music:Rickie Lee Jones, "A Tree on Allenford"
Blame hans_the_bold for this one. Over dinner, we'd been talking about James Bond on the page versus James Bond onscreen (I'd recently seen From Russia, With Love for the first time, and I still think it's far and away the best of the Connery Bonds I've seen so far: Goldfinger has the title song and Honor Blackman, but it also has lasers and grandiose plans involving nukes) and while truepenny can undoubtedly discourse more learnedly on this topic than I, it was somewhere in the discussion of the weird casual sexism that characterizes much of Ian Fleming's writing that the Gor books entered the picture. All of which goes to say that I spent about an hour and a half tonight reading John Norman's Assassin of Gor (1970), for which I feel the need to make some kind of academic justification. We shall see if it works.

(Cut for textual analysis and winceworthy prose.)

hans_the_bold has argued that this particular novel is essentially James Bond on Gor—it has secret super-organizations, it has a villain with a colorful household and a nefarious plan, it has our hero undercover and presumed dead, and it has a drop-dead sexy sidekick girl. I could be persuaded to agree, but at the moment I'm still marveling at the unbelievable difference between the standard science-fantasy adventure of Assassin of Gor and the socio-sexual claptrap of later books like Slave Girl of Gor (1977). I am not saying, mind you, that Assassin . . . is a good book. The writing style alone is enough to cause blindness, cerebral hemorrhages, and hairy palms. But it's nowhere near the levels of absurdity that cause parodies like "Gay, Bejeweled, Nazi Bikers of Gor" to read like false starts from John Norman's own keyboard. The bludgeoning insistence that men are only happy as masters and women are only happy as slaves?* Not present. The finger-pointing at all those repressive feminists who castrated modern men and made them all weak and sexually frustrated? Er, no. The denigration of overcivilized Earth for the clean, biologically-sound modalities of Gor? Strike the third. I was stunned.

For starters, there's the character of the "Bond girl," Elizabeth Cardwell: an Earth woman transported to Gor in some previous book, renamed Vella,** and now working with Tarl Cabot to infiltrate the household of Cernus, a slaver importing immense numbers of kidnapped girls from Earth to Gor and incidentally in the service of mysterious evil aliens with plans to destroy the Priest-Kings' dominion over Gor and reduce the planet's human population to herd animals.*** Far from being Tarl Cabot's inferior, she is a partner who can take care of herself both verbally and physically, who trusts in Tarl's trust in her, and who can tie him in knots when she feels like it.

I laughed. "But it was my intention to discipline you," I said.

She squared off against me, hitching up the loop on her left shoulder which I had loosened with my teeth. "My discipline," she said, "can wait until after breakfast."

"I think you are simply punishing me," I told her.

She laughed. "After breakfast," she said, blowing me a kiss, much as I had her the previous evening, "you can discipline me!" Then she turned and hurried down the corridor.

I kicked the love furs halfway across the room and sat down on the edge of the stone couch.

It was a chipper, fed Elizabeth Cardwell who returned to the compartment, humming and sprightly. "Did you enjoy your wait?" she asked.

"It seems to me," I said, "you lingered long over your breakfast."

"The porridge in the trough this morning," said she, "was simply marvelous."


Their relationship as master and slave, for the length of their operations in Cernus' household, feels far less like a biological institution than sexual role-playing. More than once Tarl observes how well she plays this role, that no one realizes how poorly it suits her:

I remembered her on the Plains of Turia, in the Land of the Wagon Peoples. There were few girls with her wind and stamina, her strength and vitality, few who could run at the stirrup of a Warrior as well as she. How offensive she must find some slave keeper's notion of the pretty hurrying of a slave girl.

Out of character, in her own life, Elizabeth does not conform to Gorean custom. Tarl worries at one point that she will cause a social revolution in the city of Ko-ro-ba:

Elizabeth, besides speaking boldly out on a large number of delicate civic, social and political issues, usually not regarded as the province of the fairer sex, categorically refused to wear the cumbersome Robes of Concealment traditionally expected of a free woman. She still wore the brief, exciting leather of a Tuchuk wagon girl and, when striding the high bridges, her hair in the wind, she attracted much attention, not only, obviously, from the men, but from women, both slave and free.

Mistaken for a slave by a veiled-and-robed free woman and her maid and then criticized for her unseemly behavior, Elizabeth first challenges the woman's assumptions ("After all . . . why should it be only slave girls who are comfortable and can move freely?"), her self-esteem ("Well then . . . what are you ashamed of?"), and finally proceeds to strip the other woman down to her sleeveless tunic and appraise her beauty. Her compliments, admittedly, consist of conjecturing the high price the woman might fetch as a slave—her value to others, not necessarily to herself. By the end of the scene, nevertheless, all three women are on a first-name basis, the Robes of Concealment have been kicked over the side of the bridge, and Tarl Cabot stands dumbfounded as the trio leave him behind for drinks at the nearest bar. These are not actions I would have imagined any of John Norman's female characters taking. Beyond simple costume and cultural associations, the link between sexuality and slavery has no foundation: free women, Elizabeth argues, can and should be as secure and easy in their bodies as the most uninhibited pleasure slave. A woman does not have to be collared to feel beautiful.

(Tell that to the later novels.)

In the same vein, there is a particular paragraph that caught my eye near the novel's close. After Cernus has been destroyed, his slaves freed, and all the romantic pairings matched up, Tarl observes how a former slave now looks as she stands beside her husband, the man who loved her unattainably when she was a barbarian slave from Earth and freed her as soon as he himself was a free man:

Virginia was clad in garments cut from the beautiful, many colored robes of concealment of the free woman. But, proud of her beauty and glorious in her joy, she had boldly shortened the garments almost to the length of slave livery, and a light, diaphanous orange veil loosely held her hair and lay about her throat. She wore the robes of concealment in such a way as not to conceal but enhance her great loveliness. She had discovered herself and her beauty on this harsh world, and was as proud of her body as the most brazen of slave girls, and would not permit its being shut away from the wind and the sunlight. The garment suggested the slave girl and yet insisted, almost demurely, on the reserve, the pride and dignity of the free woman. The combination was devastatingly, tormentingly attractive, an achievement so tantalizingly and astoundingly exciting that I would not be surprised if it were adopted throughout Ar by the city's free women, rebellious, proud of their bodies, at last determined to throw off centuries of restriction, of confinement and sequestration, at last determined to stand forth as individuals, female individuals, sensuous as slave girls, but yet rich in their own persons, intelligent, bold, beautiful, free.

All right. This is John Norman, so certain concessions must be made. (Move slowly away from the style, and perhaps it won't bite.) He still lays a heavy emphasis on the effect of this revolutionary attire on the male viewer: the appreciative response it is designed to provoke. There is the implication that Virginia might never have discovered this side of herself if she had remained on Earth: only on Gor. Even so, what he's written here is a woman who is comfortable with her body, in command of her own sexuality, and who has found a balance between the slave's constant, choiceless display and the free woman's equally enforced burqa that—with the notable exception of Elizabeth, as cited above—have been pretty much the standard options for female dress and attitude on Gor for the last four books. So how in the name of the Lord's little green apples did Norman slip from this reasonably sane portrayal to the absolute equation of female sexuality with shame and submission that marks his later books? I lift an excerpt from Dancer of Gor (1985) to illustrate:

Like most modern women I was concerned to conceal my sexual needs. To reveal them would have been just too excruciatingly embarrassing. What woman would dare to reveal to a man that she wants to move, would dare to move, before those of his sex in so beautiful and exciting a manner, in a way which proves that she is vital, and alive, and female, that she is astonishingly beautiful and inutterably desirable, in a way that will drive them mad with the wanting of her, in a way that shows them that she, too, has powerful sexual needs, and in her dance, as she presents and displays herself, striving to please them, that she wants them satisfied? Surely no virtuous woman. Surely only a despicable, sensuous slut, the helpless prisoner of her undignified and unworthy passions.

*mind*boggles*

(also, *prose*hurts*)

If one can wade through the hip-deep hyperbole, note that Norman is describing a woman who desires a certain power over men—to arouse them, drive them up the wall, make them want her as much as she wants them. Yet somehow this admission of sexual desire makes her a slut? Makes her helpless? How is it objectification when the woman glories in her ability to make her audience react? I cannot explain: I can only skim and stare.

The aroused sexuality of the slave girl is surely the strongest of the chains with which she is bound . . .

The dancing of the female before the male, that she be found pleasing and he be pleased, is one of the most profound lessons in all of human biology. Others are when she kneels before him, when she kisses his feet, when she performs obeisance, when she knows herself subject, truly, to his whip . . .

And, interestingly enough, I was not discontented. I could have wished, I suppose, for lesser men, but I did not really want lesser men. I wanted the mightiest men, the most powerful men, the most glorious men, the most ferocious, grandest men. I did not want men who were like me, I wanted men who were like men, men in whose arms, ravished, loving, crying out, overwhelmed, mastered, I could be myself, and find myself. I wanted such men, and knew in my heart that I belonged to them. I wanted a man who was greater than I, and incomparably so, one whom I must, in the order of nature, obey, one to whom I must look up, and I did not care if it was from my knees, black with dust, a collar on my neck, naked, that I looked up to his glory.


(Yeah. My apologies to your brain.)

There is none of this in Assassin of Gor. The closest Norman comes is a passage on the indoctrination of new slaves, in which Tarl repeats some of the arguments used by the trainer to convince the girls of the rightness of their social status, and remarks on the girl who most ardently argues back:

Phyllis seemed to regard men and women as unimportant differentiations off a sexless, neuter stock, whereas Flaminius argued for a position in which women were hardly to be recognized as belonging to the human species. I expect both, and I am certain that Flaminius, recognized the errors and exaggerations of their own positions, but neither was concerned with the truth; both were concerned only with victory, and pleasing themselves.

Which is as fair-minded an evaluation of two extreme arguments as one can expect on Gor. Yet only five years later, John Norman was writing Time Slave, which not only contains some of the worst cod-philosophical speeches on sexual nature versus nurture, but also a several-page digression on Stone Age sanitation.**** I haven't read the next book in the series, Raiders of Gor (1971), but I am assured by hans_the_bold that it plunges off the Cliffs of Sanity and the series never comes back.

Oh, John Norman. You were never Edgar Rice Burroughs, and you were certainly no Robert E. Howard, but what happened to you? Assassin of Gor didn't suck. Alas that that's the best compliment I can pay you. But given Slave Girl of Gor's immortal chapter title "In Which I Bead a Necklace and Am Used for Wench Sport," I think that's the best you're going to get these days. Excuse me while I go read The Birthgrave to fix my brain.


*Eat your heart out, Ian Fleming's flurry of masculine/feminine master/slave signals.

**David Eddings, did you read these books? If so, that's one more thing Norman has to answer for.

***Which I will admit is a little more flamboyant than the plans of most Bond villains, but the sky's the limit when your planet is ruled by gigantic sentient praying mantises.

****Really. I'd cite it if I had Time Slave to hand, but I'm personally rather pleased that I don't.
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Erik Amundsen
User: cucumberseed
Date: 2006-05-02 13:24 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
David Eddings. God, why? Why why why why why? That's all I have to say.
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Sovay
User: sovay
Date: 2006-05-02 17:01 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
In my defense, I can only claim that I was in elementary school and I read anything that wasn't nailed down. But a few months ago, I sat down in Barnes & Noble and skimmed through the entire Belgariad, and I was amazed I hadn't taken physical damage from the first read-through.*

*Or the exchange halfway through the Mallorean where the characters all sit down and discuss why it is that the plot is a complete rip-off of the Belgariad. Yeah. That wasn't so good either.
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adulttips
User: adulttips
Date: 2007-01-18 14:36 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I understand your feelings.. But don't panic..
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User: piroskajowuv
Date: 2008-07-17 15:22 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Thats pretty much all I have to say. I would strongly, very strongly recommend that if you fancy something entertaining and thought provoking to waste a few hours of your time with then go and watch these movies.
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it's a great life, if you don't weaken: Sapphire not sorry about this
User: matociquala
Date: 2006-05-02 14:30 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconSapphire not sorry about this
Outing myself a little, I have read a distressing number of these (they were there, I was deperate) and... the early ones aren't actually all that much worse than, say, Conan novels. (Weird bits of plot (the early ones actually had plot, rather than quivering) still float up in my brain as inventive.) Ignoring the horror of the prose style, I do recall there were a number of good bits.

The tarn races through the knife-edged rings, and Tarl's ridiculously loyal, ridiculously powerful half-feral tarn, who showed up a bit like Fury of the Broken Wheel Ranch to save the say when it was needed and fucked off to do his own thing in the meantime. Tarl getting his entire city blotted off the map and being sold into slavery. It was all very Corwin of Amber there for a while, only with notoriously poor writing.

OMG, do I have to claim John Norman as an influence? I don't know if I can handle that the same week I tripped over elements of The Greatest American Hero in my own work.
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mr profit's girl friday (and all week long): boy!Dracaena
User: tiferet
Date: 2006-05-02 15:45 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconboy!Dracaena
Add me to the list of people who really enjoyed the first 5-6 books and found them totally hilarious in places :) Harold the Tuchuk rocked in stereo!
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Sovay: Rotwang
User: sovay
Date: 2006-05-02 17:09 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconRotwang
the early ones actually had plot, rather than quivering

That's what really stunned me here: I'd only read the later novels, and I was expecting to need to flip through twenty pages of bad softcore bondage to find four pages of story. But there was story all over the place! Quite seriously, what happened to John Norman? Did his editor retire?

The tarn races through the knife-edged rings

I rather liked the subplot of Melipolus of Cos, who turned out to be sort of the Mi Taylor of the tarn-racing world. He was cool.

OMG, do I have to claim John Norman as an influence?

Nah. You're safe. He slid off you like water from a well-oiled slave girl's back.
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it's a great life, if you don't weaken: lion in winter love me?
User: matociquala
Date: 2006-05-02 14:55 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconlion in winter love me?
Also, Raiders of Gor has people riding around on giant carnivorous lizards.

And Tarl bitching about the cuisine of the effeminate merchants, IIRC. Which sounds remarkably like authentic sushi.

...these are very silly books. Why are they burned into my brain?
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mr profit's girl friday (and all week long): look how utterly innocent I am
User: tiferet
Date: 2006-05-02 15:46 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconlook how utterly innocent I am
Because you enjoyed them, they were vivid, and they made you laugh like crazy. A writer could do worse. I mean, at least there weren't any venom cocks.
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Jonquil Serpyllum
User: jonquil
Date: 2006-05-02 16:33 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
The really sad thing is that Norman castrates Vella a couple of books later. She's a slave, she asks Cabot to buy her, and that's the Big No-No. But, yes, when she's kicking Gorean values, she is a wonderful thing.
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Sovay: Lord Peter Wimsey
User: sovay
Date: 2006-05-02 17:30 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconLord Peter Wimsey
The really sad thing is that Norman castrates Vella a couple of books later.

I've been informed that the characters all go pretty much to slush eventually. Gah. Although to be fair, it's not as though Gorean culture doesn't also fall apart.
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Erik Amundsen
User: cucumberseed
Date: 2006-05-02 17:23 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Actually, this makes me almost want to write a story in the "Crappy Barbarian Fantasy" mileau.
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Sovay
User: sovay
Date: 2006-05-02 17:33 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I'm sadly entertained that "Crappy Barbarian Fantasy" is still an immediately recognizable subgenre . . .
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movingfinger
User: movingfinger
Date: 2006-05-02 18:03 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I've heard others say the same thing, that the books start out silly-bad entertainment and run off the rails (I don't remember them, now, myself, but I know I read some as a teenager). I always supposed some personal life or medical problem (like a personality-affecting brain tumor or chemical imbalance) may have skewed the author's thinking. No doubt with enough digging and gossip this would be easily disproven.
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Sovay: Rotwang
User: sovay
Date: 2006-05-02 20:36 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconRotwang
hans_the_bold thinks it has to do with the publishing switch from Del Rey to DAW: he weighs in here.
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Rush-That-Speaks: bestest authorservice
User: rushthatspeaks
Date: 2006-05-03 04:23 (UTC)
Subject: she hears the steeple bells ringing through the orchard all the way from town
iconbestest authorservice
... dude, you're making me happy about my Piers Anthony Years, which is a serious achievement-- I've read the complete works of Piers Anthony until 1997, at which point I suddenly realized I'd been had-- but it could have been worse. Because my father has the Gor books. I can remember seeing them about. I just never picked them up. I was too busy going through E.E. Smith.

Someday I need to write an essay on Piers Anthony's 'Tarot' series, and why it was a good reading experience and an aid to me in growing up without ever containing one single instance of quality. (Seriously, those are books in which the hero, under the influence of a sight-only glamour, has sex with a man under the impression that said man is female... and *doesn't notice any difference between anal and vaginal intercourse*... at which point I became convinced that Anthony's wife is a parthenogenetic alien and the man has never actually had sex.)
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Sovay
User: sovay
Date: 2006-05-03 04:38 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
I've read the complete works of Piers Anthony until 1997, at which point I suddenly realized I'd been had-- but it could have been worse.

My sympathies (and trauma) are with you. I think I read up through The Color of Her Panties in Xanth and my brain rebelled; I don't think I got farther than Being a Green Mother in the "Incarnations of Immortality" and I'm told that's just as well. I vaguely remember Killobyte because of the narrative's insistence that virtual reality is the only place our hero can have a sex life, and I haven't read Macroscope in years, but I am actually under the impression that I really liked it. But past that? Remember from Readercon that it was Piers Anthony who turned out to have authored the immortal line "I had climaxed in my steel crotchguard."

at which point I became convinced that Anthony's wife is a parthenogenetic alien and the man has never actually had sex.

Given what I remember of Piers Anthony's attitudes toward sex, I would be entirely willing to believe this.

You should definitely write that essay, though.
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mallory_blog: pic#45313313
User: mallory_blog
Date: 2006-05-03 21:20 (UTC)
Subject: ...John Norman
iconpic#45313313
He isn't John Norman, of course, you are talking about John Lange, author of the Gor series.

As I understand it he suffered from some kind of seizure around book 9 and the books after that one were rather circular in plotting and (can we say) even less well written than his earlier books.

As I understand it, John Lange has a love/hate relationship with his creation since it has created a rather large cult following which he abhors (except for the royalty money) and has prevented him from being taken seriously as a SF writer of stature, I guess something he genuinely aspires to.

The stories, although you didn't hear this from me, were said to have emerged from John's connection with (VEHEMENTLY DENIED) the Boston Dungeon Society http://www.ne-ds.org/home.htm in one of its much earlier forms and certain club members feuded with John in the aftermath of the books publication for pilfering scenes he had witnessed and/or physical descriptions of women in the group to include in the book. (both things STRONGLY against the rules in such communities)

Gossip goes further to suggest that John's participation in this community was not with John in a masterly role.

To understand things a bit more you have to remember that said 'community' was WAY WAY underground at the time John wrote these books and public association with them on his part would have been credential destroying.

For the vast unwashed - there is a robust 'Gor' community in the United States and in parts of Europe (chiefly Germany and Holland) of persons who embrace the descriptions of relationship so carefully portrayed by John in his stories. These groups and his cult following generated reissuing of some of his books in the recent past. I can't quite remember when or if more are coming out. But it used to be true that if you clandestinely owned a complete collection of Gor novels - during their out of print days - that you could easily resell these battered (really bad paper in these) and yellowed paperbacks for near a $1,000 bucks!!! Yowsa!
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Sovay
User: sovay
Date: 2006-05-03 21:33 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
He isn't John Norman, of course, you are talking about John Lange, author of the Gor series.

Yes. I've been using his pen name to avoid confusion: anyone who's read a Gor book will recognize "John Norman," whereas you might need to have taken classes at Queens College to recognize John Lange.

(both things STRONGLY against the rules in such communities)

I'm amazed that wouldn't have been legally objectionable as well. Even given the low public profile of the BDSM community in the late 1960's, there is a reason films need that little disclaimer about actions and characters being in no way intended to resemble real life.

For the vast unwashed - there is a robust 'Gor' community in the United States and in parts of Europe (chiefly Germany and Holland) of persons who embrace the descriptions of relationship so carefully portrayed by John in his stories.

Lifestyle Goreans are one of the many phenomena I do not understand. But I think I would demand good writing from any world on which I planned to pattern my life . . .

I can't quite remember when or if more are coming out.

I think Wildside Press has been reprinting some, but beyond that, I know not.
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Andrew J. Bonia: Enough is enough!
User: spectre_general
Date: 2006-05-07 06:01 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconEnough is enough!
(Ainsley, hijacking Andrew's account yet again)

Okay, so it's much too late to be posting to this thread. My excuse is that I don't get out much, and, besides, there's always the possibility that you'll discover this reply at some point.

The only exposure that I have ever had to the wonderful world of Gor was an online Batman crossover fanfic called "A Cat and a Bat on Gor". I kid you not. I don't remember how I stumbled on the story. I don't know why I read it the whole way through. All of us literary types insist that we'll read anything that comes to hand but that doesn't excuse my complete lack of any instinct of self-preservation. All I can tell you is that the brain damage was permanent.

Warning: Spoilers ahead!*

The plot follows Catwoman and Batgirl, the character everyone loves to hate, as they are kidnapped by Gorean slave traders, taken back to Gor, 'broken,' and sold. I don't know what I found more disturbing, the scene in which Bruce Wayne (now a Gorean master-man) slaps a giddily slavish Batgirl around or the story's closing moments, which suggest that Bruce Wayne planned the whole kidnapping so that he could enslave all his hott super-nemeses.** Oh, I almost forgot the several inexplicable references to Princess Diana, who, I'm sure you'll all be relieved to know, did not actually die in a car accident, but is, in fact, now a happily barefoot and pregnant slave named something like Sweetbreasts living in Gor's northcountry. Did I mention the brain damage?

The prose, as you can probably guess, was like your typical hemorrhage-inducing fanfic style on acid. Imagine a twelve-year-old trying to imitate John Norman.... No, wait. Don't do that. I'm sure you get the picture.

The outcomes of this experience are, first, that I have a much deeper understanding of the varied nature of torture, and, second, that I never want to be exposed to anything having to do with Gor ever again.

I've also had the dubious pleasure of running into lifestyle Goreans on message boards. Roleplaying? Fine. D/s or BDSM lifestyle? More power to you. But the moment you try to generalize your sexual preferences into a political perspective that demeans and has the potential to turn the clock backward on the social progress made by a still-disenfranchised portion of the population is the moment I go textually berserk in front of a bunch of forum strangers.

Why is it that all of these men*** believe themselves to be experts in the field of evolutionary neurobiology? Argh!

I'm sorry. The whole Gorean philosophy, from what little exposure I've had to it, drives me absolutely crazy. Basing your private life on it is one thing. Embellishing it into a belief system that passes absolute judgement on women's roles and social worth is really ludicrous. In sum, this concept of Gor confuses and infuriates me! May I never run into a Gorean in real life.


* Sorry. Now I'm just being mean. :-)

** I'm recounting my memory of the story here; the details may be inaccurate to the text, but there's no way I'm going to try to find it to fact-check.

*** Because, in my experience, they're all men -- though, on further consideration, perhaps this is because the Gorean slavewomen are too busy kneeling with c*** in their mouths to use the keyboard.
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Andrew J. Bonia: Enough is enough!
User: spectre_general
Date: 2006-05-07 06:02 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconEnough is enough!
Also, why is it that whenever we hang out with hans_the_bold we wind up talking about Nazis or Gor or both? ;-)
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Andrew J. Bonia: Paddington Lantern
User: spectre_general
Date: 2006-05-07 06:14 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconPaddington Lantern
(Me, posting as myself. Ainsley, get an account for god's sake.)

I'd just like to drop a line to all the little Eddings bashers out there: screw y'all.

That said, he did write the same series of books over and over, and yeah it became tiresome. But they were damn good books while it lasted. Damnit.

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Sovay
User: sovay
Date: 2006-05-07 06:25 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Ainsley, get an account for god's sake.

Seconded.

But they were damn good books while it lasted. Damnit.

How far did they last for you? I think I might have been all right if the Belgariad had been his only series, but I lost the Mallorean pretty much on the first book. (I maintain, however, that Vella and Beldin and their character arc are pretty cool.)
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Dessie Octavia: Wonder Woman with Queen
User: dessieoctavia
Date: 2008-05-30 04:29 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconWonder Woman with Queen
Here via a link from baron_waste. You've probably seen this, but if you haven't, you really need to: Houseplant of Gor.
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Sovay: I Claudius
User: sovay
Date: 2008-05-30 04:51 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
iconI Claudius
Here via a link from baron_waste.

Pleased to meet you! I am indeed familiar with "Houseplants of Gor." ("It was plant. It could be watered at will.") But do you know "Gay, Bejeweled, Nazi Bikers of Gor"?
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